From Corporate To Six-Figure MRR Supplement Brand - TJ (#2)
106: Interview #2 - TJ
TJ (also known as BowTiedBrosedion)
I don’t care what your favorite guru says
Life isn’t a single player game
Friends & Family
Connections
Business partners
They all make the game better
Wtf is the point of pursuing success to be alone? - TJ
The second interview is out. We have been fortunate to have TJ, who managed to escape the 9to5, spin off multiple supplement brands, and grow them to impressive numbers. All that while living the life most want to live. Having family, playing sports, and enjoying hobbies…
Many lessons in this one.
Disclaimer: None of this is to be considered advice of any kind. The individuals featured in these interviews are trained professionals with extensive experience in their fields.
Q&A
BOSS: Not sure how comfortable you are discussing this, but you used to post under a different name, being part of a group that is still quite popular (far from its glory days). What has changed in the meantime?
TJ: I am perfectly comfortable discussing what once was BowTiedBrosedion. So, for those reading that are unfamiliar - I started creating content and my brands under an anon profile. At the time of starting I had a 9-5 at an SF-based tech company and could be fired for speaking my mind online. As the business grew to multiple 5 figures per month in sales I became more and more confident that it would work + I started feeling the constraints of not being able to show my face for content and ad purposes.
Admittedly, I was also never super serious about the whole anonymity thing.
There’s no deep dark reason for the shift. It was all based on strategy for the business.
BOSS: Would you recommend that everyone do the same and build it “even more” publicly?
TJ: Honestly? No
Here’s why - there are a ton of benefits to building in public. Awareness, connections, authenticity, etc…
But looking back? I think the negatives outweigh the positives at times.
First and foremost - you open yourself up to extreme levels of criticism.
Younger me struggled with confidence issues. I am a very “aware” person, and with that awareness comes an inability to ignore just how insignificant we are in the grand scheme of things & the fact that there are so many smarter, more talented people out there.
Why am I saying this? Because what confidence I do possess is built on an extremely strong foundation. It’s been pressure tested time and time again. But even with that confidence in certain areas? Getting criticized publicly over and over again for sharing what you’re doing will shake you every once in a while.
Secondly? You get bombarded with people looking for your time. If anyone reading this follows me you know that I love to help as much as possible and package my information in a realistic way. But I cannot help everyone, and that weighs on me. Ignoring DMs, emails, etc…
I ranted a bit there, so I’ll summarize:
Building in public has a lot of benefits, but I wouldn’t do it again.
BOSS: Is it possible for those who are working under someone else or still trying to figure out their careers?
TJ: Of course - I am the living embodiment of it. Nothing stands out about me. Above average intelligence at best. Working full-time + wife, kid, dog, and mortgage.
I built a Ramp on the side for 2 years before leaving the 9-5.
Caveat: I did take on some investment $. It would be disingenuous to pretend I bootstrapped this entire thing. Once I reached moderate success and proof of concept, I took some cash to ascend to the next level.
BOSS: How did it all begin? When was that moment when it all clicked and you knew you had to focus on starting your own business?
TJ: The actual beginning was summer 2022. I was at the beach on a family vacation and decided I was going to start making content.
For those that don’t know - I used to make content exclusively related to social skill & interactions.
Initial growth was pretty quick, and with that came the discovery that a LOT of people have social anxiety.
Around the same time, I was experimenting with nootropics to self-treat ADHD.
One thing led to another, and B4 was born.
We started a presale 4/23, shipped first orders 7/2,3 and now 2+ years late, we’re scaling like a mofo 😁
BOSS: Did BowTied Bull Efficiency play a role in all of it? Only a few of us ever mentioned that book. A lifesaver back in the day (and still is).
TJ: I was aware of BTB only tangentially. I read efficiency when I first made my bowtied account, and most definitely credit it with being a huge inspiration. However, I was already 31 and starting a family, so not everything was relevant to my life.
BTB as a whole has been a life-changing resource, though. I credit and praise them whenever I can.
BOSS: When someone asks you what you do to make a living right now. What is your answer?
TJ: “I’m in the supplement business.” I try to ride the line between not revealing too much but also not sounding like an asshole.
BOSS: Was it hard to explain that to the people once you had quit the corporate world?
TJ: Not necessarily difficult to explain, but there’s something else I didn’t expect. People still don’t think or believe that the business is doing well because I don’t “show” it lifestyle-wise. It’s unexpected and great to be honest.
The only thing that happens all the time is “how’s the business?” In a status checking way.
I answer this question ambiguously, “not bankrupt yet” or something similar.
BOSS: How has your life changed since leaving the corporate world? Yet to hear someone regret not sitting in the cubicle, no matter how good the benefits are.
TJ: I cannot begin to explain how much my baseline happiness has increased. Being away from it for 8+ months now, I realize how almost all of my stress and anger about work was related to dealing with other people at work.
BOSS: Any advice would you give to those who are still struggling, spending their day in a cubicle, but want to build something of their own on the side?
TJ: Well… the obvious advice is "start right f*ckin now". Don't even finish reading this. Assuming they've already started? The advice is to minimize the entire process down to one question: "Did I move the ball down the field today?". Did you do at least one thing to drive the mission forward?
That helps get rid of all the noise in your head and is very easy to stack day after day.
BOSS: Any bold predictions around white-collars and how AI is impacting the field? It seems careers are zero at this point, or better said, something you should look at as a golden ticket to get you out asap.
TJ: I'm never good at these guru-esque predictions, but I'll do my best. I think any job that doesn't require any real "skill” gets eaten up. See: IBM HR (Sorry to anyone in HR reading this, but also f*ck off)
BOSS: Not to get fully into the history of the things and the business you have done, but what category do you fall into? Brand builders (those who start them) or scalers (those who scale them). Or do you think that one doesn't go without the other?
TJ: I'm going to change the options to Builder vs. Operator. I consider myself wayyyyyy more builder than operator.
BOSS: What sparked your initial idea to start building out a brand with such a unique selling point in a world that is rapidly changing from year to year?
TJ: To be honest? I read a few Substacks and a Twitter thread on how to start a supplement brand and said "f*ck it I can do this". Keep in mind I'm a 10+ year wantrepreneur. Read all the books. Dabbled in many businesses but only dipping in a toe here and there.
BOSS: Are you focusing heavily on marketing these days? Do you think we are entirely in the attention economy, and that distribution solves most bottlenecks? Or is this something else?
TJ: I would say that building a brand is 80-90% marketing. Everything else is the remaining 10-20% with product being the majority of that. (There are plenty of sh*tty products with great marketing that do well. I do not advocate for this and good product + good marketing = easy street)
BOSS: Is there anything you would do differently now that you know what you know about marketing compared to before?
TJ: I would've been on TikTok earlier & I would've 100x'd my creative testing. I remember someone once sent me an ad they made an my response was "Looks amazing now go do 250 more”. It got back to me through the grapevine that I came off like a d*ck (I forget who it was and sorry for doing that) but it's also the right thing. And it's something that took me way too long to fully grasp.
BOSS: 100% that someone will be curious about this. But what difference in the traffic do you experience with organic vs. paid?
TJ: Organic is the homies. We'll see 10%+ Conversion rate from an influencer post or a post from me vs cold traffic where we hover between 2-2.5% CVR
BOSS: The first time is always the hardest. When comparing Ramp Health to Aurenza, what differences have you noticed by starting the second brand in the same niche?
TJ: There's just wayyy less stress on the “how”. Everything is focused on the best “what” in terms of actions taken.
BOSS: Would you do anything differently in terms of Aurenza, or is it too early to say?
TJ: We've only been shipping for 6 weeks so I'd be lying if I answered this.
BOSS: Do you already have ideas around the third brand? It is impossible to predict this, but this gives us the feeling that you will become an expert in the niche and have a sweet exit sooner or later. Bold prediction here.
TJ: I most definitely cannot take on any more right now. I will cross this bridge once some beautiful human(s) offer me millions of dollars for one (or both) of the brands.
BOSS: Have you had any negative experiences trying to build the brand? Or do you have a piece of advice to share with others so that they don't get burned?
TJ: A few.. Let me list some that come to mind immediately:
Always see someone's face before doing business with them
Always have contracts in place when money is involved
If an offer or solution seems too good to be true, it is
You need to know how to do the thing yourself before outsourcing it (I learned this the hard way. These are not my words)
When in doubt? Revenue generating activity
Do not get too friendly with vendors and contractors. It makes it much harder to fire them if they mess up.
When you find someone great? Incentivize them to work hard and stay
Once you do any significant business, the sharks come and they all want a piece
BOSS: What is one thing to never do when building a supplement brand?
TJ: Throw together some BS white labeled slop and make crazy claims about it. This is what gives the supplement industry a bad name.
BOSS: Not to bother you anymore with business and running one in general. Let's shift more towards lifestyle and mindset topics. Trying to use the same question with everyone on how one defines a good day. What is a good day for you?
TJ: A great day for me is when I move the ball down the field for the business, get a great workout in, and spend time with my family. Those are the big pillars in my life.
Throw in a round of golf with my buddies every week or two? Life is golden.
BOSS: Do you try to practice that “routine” every day, or is it something that you only manage to do over the weekend? Having a baby is pretty much a full-time job.
TJ: I'm not a routine guy. I'm an ADHD force of energy that does 97 things at once for 2-3hr bursts. Then I take 30-60 mins to recharge or workout and do it again.
The only set thing in my day is that I do not work from 4-8pm. That is family time - you can ask anyone who works with me.
Unless there is a fire or some extremely urgent task, I am spending 4-8 with my wife and son.
The only * on this is that I will occasionally be on my phone doing admin tasks or answering emails/social media comments.
I am fundamentally opposed to cheapness & over-frugality. - TJ
BOSS: How would you describe how becoming a father changes your reality? Yet to hear someone say that it doesn't make you push harder and provides you with sharper vision.
TJ: It's allowed me to dream bigger for my son than I ever dreamed for myself. Money, time, and resources I could never have fathomed as a kid.
I think it's a given that it makes you work and push harder.
I would take it further and say that I now accept no other outcome from these ventures other than success.
BOSS: Any advice for upcoming fathers (and mothers)?
TJ: No one knows what they're doing with their first kid.
It's ok that the first 2-6 weeks you may not be filled with this crazy overwhelming love for them that you hear about. It will come and it will build over the coming weeks and months until it reaches a point where you can't fathom life without that mini version of you around.
If crackheads can have and raise babies so can you.
Our comment: Many lessons in this answer - take notes.
BOSS: Judging by your physique and what you can see from those short-form videos, you are putting out. You are easily running laps around 80% of 25-year-olds out there. What would you say is the key to staying in shape while running a business and being a father?
TJ: 200mg of Test C per week.
Only ½ kidding tbh. Hormone optimization has done more for my life than anything else I've ever done.
That said, I think folks need to identify the minimum amount of workouts required for them to maintain their health and desired physique. I'm sitting around 16-18% BF which is a little huskier than ideal, but still a good range for me where I feel good most of the time. I can maintain this with 3 lifts(PPL), 6 2-mile walks, and some scattered golf. That allows me to work as much as possible during the week and lighten the workload on the weekends a bit.
BOSS: Do you have any special checks every few months or a similar process? It seems that blood markers and other health checks must be one of the highest ROI investments you can make.
TJ: I get my bloods + urine done every 4-6 months to check everything. I also donate blood at a similar cadence.
BOSS: A few times on Twitter, you have mentioned that you believe everyone suffers from the main character syndrome. No one can deny it. What do you think is the leading cause of it?
TJ: You can create a digital world where you are the main character. A false persona and an echo chamber where you can block all negativity and get praised all day.
BOSS: Considering what you have mentioned, would you say that it is limiting them from achieving their goals and growth in the first place? Everyone knows that putting in hard work (real one) makes you feel everything, but it doesn't feel like the main character.
TJ: Tbh - I'm now of the mindset that you can do whatever the F you want if it leads you to getting rich and then "fix” yourself once your there. It turns out that most problems are money problems, lol.
BOSS: If you could tell your younger version of yourself one thing that would have helped you get to where you are right now in a quarter of the time, what would it be?
TJ: No one knows what they're doing. Everyone is just trying to figure it the f*ck out. Start building right now and figure it out as you go.
And I would scream it at myself as loudly as possible.
BOSS: Social skills or technical abilities in the current day and age?
TJ: One is becoming rarer, and it isn't technical ability.
BOSS: What category do you lean more towards?
TJ: Social Skills by far. If I'm being self-aware I am smart enough to understand most technical things conceptually, but my brain is not built for highly technical tasks. I do, however, know some code and have built a few apps. Just very basic stuff.
BOSS: What do you believe in that other people think is insane?
TJ: You can just change your life. You can make a decision, leverage the internet, and take action every single day until you have a completely different life.
I've done it with: My businesses, fitness, health, career, learning to golf, even world rankings in video games.
You identify the end state and take action non-stop.
BOSS: Has it helped you in any way and how?
TJ: It saved my life… Seems a bit dramatic but it feels like the right answer here.
BOSS: Not to bother you much longer. Let's do a few rapid ones.. Favorite way to come up with new ideas?
TJ: Driving without music or walking my dog without headphones
Bonus: listening to other entrepreneurs on podcasts and adapting what they're saying to my own thoughts and ideas.
BOSS: What do you do in your free time that has a massive impact on your overall quality of life?
TJ: Read fiction before bed every single night since 2011.
BOSS: Any carryover to other areas of your life?
TJ: It leads to better sleep, which affects everything else.
BOSS: Any good documentary or book you have watched recently?
TJ: Doc: The latest season of drive to survive.
Book: No BS guide to brand building by Dan Kennedy.
BOSS: While we are on the topic. Your favorite one?
TJ: This is a tough question. I'd say for fiction? Shogun by James Clavell. Non-Fiction? How to get rich by Felix Dennis
Question: Why is Toto Wolff a cool guy? Funny enough, if you browse Reddit a bit… It feels like we are the only ones who like him.
Answer: He epitomizes swagger to me. Salt and pepper hair, Rich as shit, European, Super cars, and a calm wit not so dissimilar to Arnie.
BOSS: Favorite thing you have purchased this year?
TJ: Hbada Chair for my office.
BOSS: One scam that everyone believes is true?
TJ: Taking more equity over salary at a tech company. Unless their Series A or earlier it's a giant scam. The only exception would be if you're an executive and are getting a substantial grant of shares.
BOSS: Have you fallen for the same?
TJ: Twice.
BOSS: Since this is the last question, it's time to wrap it up. To avoid repeating what we asked in our previous one, and to rephrase it a bit differently… What advice would you give to someone who is feeling completely lost in their life?
TJ: Get your health and fitness in order. It just makes everything better.
Look good feel good. Feel good play good.
Huge shoutout to the man himself TJ. One of those rare people who feels genuine without trying to hide anything.
Be sure to follow TJ on Twitter, order his products, and show your support.
Disclaimer: None of this is to be legal or financial advice of any kind.
An elite read from a couple S-tier gentlemen. Thanks for this.
Great read.